THE IMPORTANCE OF PUBLIC OPINION FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROJECT
That?s why I defend this project, because this is the moment of change, the moment to go out on the streets and to come to the apotheosis, to come to the circle, to the place where you can really found again the Brazilian popular theatre, a theatre that?s musical, danceable, erotic, visual, plastic, funny, circus-like, and which will attract huge multitudes. These all are things which have been very clearly in my mind for 25 years now and which – as I see – the architects, urged by financial speculations, still werent able to solve. I see the need for pressure on the part of public opinion. This is why we?ll open our Web site for debate. This is not really a means of pressure, rather its an ideological contribution, a creative and inventive contribution. Thats something which never existed before. Its nice, because people have ideas, people know about things, people want things. For example this girl, she expressed herself – Ihave been receiving news through Orkut that people are gossiping a lot, saying that Im a traitor, that Ive given up everything and so forth. But its nothing of that kind, its a process, in which we have already had a big victory with this visit of Silvio Santos. I wouldnt have achieved anything if I had dealt only with the people of the capital, because I think what changes things are the people. The structures are there to be changed by people, they are not there to enslave people. So the man who already is above, who has his neck outside the structure, as Silvio Santos does, has given the order to demolish a building because this would look better. I found this attitude just wonderful. The group was scandalised. I believe in him, I trust he will understand all the significance of this, all the international grandiosity which will last for ever and which we are capable to give.
THE PEOPLE OF THE BIXIGA DISTRICT
This place mustnt become a mediocre place. The calculation has to have some more “reais”,some more dollars. The reward will come later, in form of many more dollars, many more euros. It may become an international shopping centre of international interest, because such a popular district begins to have an international interest, as it becomesan island which will serve as orientation for the whole world, which will allow it to expand itself in this sea which is the common people. And this people of the Bixiga district is a great people, its a wholly mixed people. To have the [samba school] Vai-Vai is a luxury, that African mix, all these people drinking, sniffing, smoking, talking, singing, dancing. I mean, its an ecological thing; humanity needs such a kind of space. For millenniums humanity has been celebrating itself in liberty. So this joyful thing which exists in the Vai-Vai and in this district, this people that is a mixture of Italian and black people with everything and with the people from the Northeast region results in people you can talk to and who go to this theatre. The Bixigão project was a revolution in this district and has put us in direct contact with these wonderful people. They are not of the kind of the medium class “paulista”, of the inhabitant of São Paulo who is framed in the machine, who closes the windows of his car, who doesnt want to talk to anybody, who thinks the poor have to be massacred, who thinks the poor are no issue. They are not like the imbecile ?paulistas?, these poker face people. They are people who are a heritage of mankind. So this is a thing which has to be understood and which is linked with the whole.
RE-DESIGNATION OF THE MINHOCÃO VIADUCT
There is still another issue to be added, regarding the Minhocão viaduct. There is a possibility, which has already been planned in the project of Paulo Mendesda Rocha and which Marcelo Ferraz will be able to adapt and which is a very good idea, that is to cover the Minhocão viaduct with earth and to build a small amphitheatre under the Minhocão. This place could simultaneously be the ?dressing room? for animals, for horses and elephants. I have seen a photograph of Elvira Pagã on the back of an elephant. So it would be possible for an elephant to cross this place and enter the stadium theatre; therefore there must be a dressing room for it.
INFORMATION TOWER AND PRODUCTION TOWER
And on the two pieces of land which belong to the municipality there should be a production house with a bar, where you can find pingas [white rum] from all places in the world, and on the neighbouring piece of landan archive. I am very engaged in the struggle for the creation of an archive, I am looking for subsidies to begin immediately to set up a data bank, to make available what the Oficina has in store and which is of universal interest. It?s a crime to have everything so locked up. There is not an easy access to it because the material is not organised. I?m trying to raise funds for this, but we need to define the place and I want it to be in one of the towers Paulo Mendes da Rocha has visualised and Marcelo Ferraz could adapt and which Silvio Santos could sponsor as a whole, so that it becomes a really strong thing.
REVOLUTION INSIDE THE CAPITALISM
GILBERTO GIL, BRAZIL?S MOST IMPORTANT MINISTER
If it is to become a mediocre thing, I don?t want it. I have agreed to this bureaucratic thing because I believe in the very good relationship with Silvio Santos. There is also a very good relationship with the architects, and the relationship with the people of the financial group has been good and is still improving. Nevertheless they still believe that they have to think according to the immediate profit machinery. It is as if they had a helmet, a Matrix over their heads. But even this people may do without this Matrix and begin to think in longer terms, because Brazil is growing and it will be a rich nation. And it won?t grow with a mentality of excessive and stingy exploration. It?s necessary to have another kind of capitalism here in Brazil: a revolution within capitalism itself. The other day, a friend of mine,Monique, said that everybody should become rich in order to put an end to capitalism. Everybody wants to get rich, but the logic of capitalism allows this to happen only to a few. And those who get rich become captives. I heard that those big bankers in Switzerland who own huge fortunes don?t know what to do with their money; they dress in blue jeans and do nothing, they sit together looking at each other because they don?t have anything to do with their money. Well, they invest it in the structure, while we are living in an era in which humanity could be much more happier. It?s not an utopia; humanity doesn?t need wars, doesn?t has to be hungry. But it?s a question of change in mentality. I think we are in a special moment, because of the culture, because of this stadium theatre, because of the man Silvio Santos, because of what Oficina is and because of the public which Oficina has and who is discussing the subject. We are living a special moment, having Gilberto Gil as Culture Minister, who I believe is the best Culture Minister of the world ? I doubt there is another culture minister with such a high cultural level as Gilberto Gil has, be it in the USA, in France, in Israel, in Japan. I?m sure there isn?t. ? Well, this all is being wonderful for Brazil. Just yesterday he was saying in an interview that 10% of the Brazilian GNP comes from the cultural sector. That culture is already a wealth factor and is a ?creative industry?. I think this is very good. There has to be a great investment in creative industries. We presently have as Culture Minister an ?Oswaldian? [Oswald de Andrade (1890-1954), author of the Anthropophagist Manifesto of 1928], a ?tropicalist? [Gilberto Gil is one of the founders of the cultural and musical movement ?Tropicalismo? from the late sixties and seventies] who is the most important minister of the Lula government; then comes Celso Amorim [Foreign Minister], but the foremost minister is Gilberto Gil. Brazil is now living a very important moment of cultural awakening. And this cultural and economic awakening of the Brazilian culture will allow a change in the vision of the capitalist mind conditioned to pay debts, to profit, to enslave. I think the major form of slavery is if you have to live to pay debts and interest. I think it?s a shame for humanity. Also the impediment to the liberation of drugs is a shame, as is the trade with slaves. And culture emerges as an enormous power to make a revolution in society. I believe that only this can stop the wars in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and now in Iran. That man wants to invade Iran. It?s just crazy. And only through a total cultural experience, not only cerebral, but through the experience of the body, the own experiences, the experience of another dimension of the individual human body and ofthe collective human body, – all of which will be made possible by the stadium – this revolution can be achieved.
THE OFICINA WEB SITE
Marilú: How about the Web site ?
Zé: We have a Web site which is not spectacularly beautiful because we are learning how to make a Web site. Incidentally the guy which is the best Web site designer in the USA and who makes a Web site on movies has said that his Web site is not fabulous or ostentatious because it?s a site of content. So that?s what we are working for. Our Web site is always updated, it brings the news of the day, the reports on the rehearsals and musical scenes; it has a kind of TV and radio – the Uzyna Uzona ? which will soon show a report of the day on which the model of the project has been presented – this report is still being edited. The Web site will be open to everyone who wants to contribute to the discussions. We?ll open the site very soon, I don?t know very much about Web sites, but I will ask them to open the site today because of the discussions which are being made at Orkut. This is of big relevance to us, to the Silvio Santos Group and to Silvio Santos himself. Because it?s an opinion poll, and the discussions about the stadium theatre arouse big interest. And it?s a new thing, it?s a first voyage, there has never been something like it in the contemporary world. There has been something like it in ancient history, and it has to be thought of in a collective way. Please note, it?s ?teatroficina? with only one ?o?, dot com. dot br. Kisses to everybody.
Translated by Angelika Kohnke